Many Faces of TimRSS Icon

Lies, damn lies and PageRank statistics

I thought it was all over that the message had finally gotten through to even the most stubborn digital point fan boy. PageRank does not equate to search engine rankings, yet some still remain unconvinced what’s scary is some of the FUD coming out to prove the link. Fantomaster posted about HTML4SEO latest study which proves the existence of a link between PageRank and rankings(PDF) based on thousands of SEO audits.

I could pick them to bits for not actually providing any methodology or showing how they determined rankings etc but I’m not going to because on the whole I agree with their findings but not the conclusion being drawn in some circles that this is proof PageRank has any effect on the SERPs
I want to make this simple,

One (and note the word one) of the major factors in determining PageRank as defined by Google is the number and quality of inbound links to the site.
One (and again note the word one) of the factors of ranking a site is the number of inbound links and its relationship with the page.

PageRank and Search engine rankings therefore have at least one common factor, this does not mean that PageRank effects the search engine rankings it means that they have something in common and as such you will see at least some correlation.
Or to put it even more simply
DNA a Pig and Human but what that got to do with PR?
We share much of the same DNA as a pig with only a few changes yet you couldn’t say that the pig has a direct effect on humans (we do eat them and rear them so perhaps not a perfect analogy) I could go on, having a common factor does not imply a direct relationship.

So it has no direct effect on rankings but it does to visitors!

I really have heard this from a “Google expert” the question I always ask is how? How does Page Rank effect your visitor numbers and the answer is it doesn’t because it is not an it! PageRank is a metric a score to help Google and others to rate a site nothing more. Sure people have come to rely on it, as a means of identifying a “quality” site from another but none of this relates to traffic. Indeed when Andy Beard had his PageRank reduced by Google for “selling links” he has actually seen an increase in traffic (with no major change from search traffic) through the publicity.
Most bloggers gain their traffic from 3 sources, inbound links, search engines and social media - none of these traffic sources have a reliance on PageRank. The one where PR may make a difference is the inbound links, not because the traffic from such links will be reduced but some webmasters refuse to link to low PR sites because they are worried that Google will reduce their own PR if they do!

PR is all about linking to other high PR sites

The key to increase your PageRanks is to only accept links from high PR sites is another common statement. Again there is a simple question to be asked how do all those PR7,8,9 sites manage to keep there rankings when they are always being linked to and indeed themselves link to low PR sites?

Hey I want the stats

I thought so, you're becoming cynical this is good, so lets look at a small sample of sites which have been monitored for 6 months,

Site PageRank (pre) PageRank(pos) Rankings Traffic
Tim Nash SEO Blog* PageRank 5 PageRank 3 No change in Search Ranking Traffic increases
Venture Skills PageRank 5 PageRank 5 Search Ranking increases Traffic increases
Payment Blogger PageRank 3 PageRank 4 no Change Traffic increases
SEO Forensics PageRank 5 PageRank 4 no Change no Change
Shipping Charges UK PageRank 0 PageRank 2 no Change no Change
All About Asking PageRank 4 PageRank 3 Search Ranking Decreases Traffic Decreases

*Tim Nash SEO Blog is a little unfair on here as it has had a 301 from .me.uk to .co.uk after a probable penalty.
Out of the further 60 sites checked, most (65%) gained 1 or more PageRank positions, while traffic was down by approximately 1.2% of the sites checked, the average ranking for their 3 primary keywords changed by approximately 0.2 of a position.
These are not staggering statistics - it shows apart from anything else that I need to stop writing blog posts and start promoting some of these sites, but it also shows that within my small sample there is some correlation between rankings and traffic. The static sites which tend to not have social media sites passing them traffic see the most notable correlation between ranking and traffic. You will note however while most sites gained a PageRank position this did not correlate to a boost in the rankings indeed in some cases the opposite.

Is PageRank useless?

I think it’s important now to separate the green bar which is what people talk about when discussing PageRank and the original algorithm which once upon a time had some impact on the SERPs. In recent month we have seen numerous sites hit with penalties and more people talking and linking to these sites then hot dinners, people like Rob Watts, Andy Beard indeed Andy is keeping a list which appears to be growing. These sites provide quality content all of whom are still ranking well and have no overall reduction in long tail or primary keyword searches. So having their PageRank cut is hardly a major penalty but a useful scare tactic. It is I presume easier to modify a green bar manually then to manually throw a spanner into one of the most complex algorithms on the planet to affect rankings.
PageRank is being used as a weapon or punishment tool why then are we still as webmasters using it as a metrics? Why are people still whining or even looking at it. A recent discussion I had with a blogger who had his PR dropped and was worried it would effect his new business venture because people would see it as some sort of stigma. The presumption was people care, I don’t go round looking at sites PR (unless I’m writing a blog entry on the subject) do you?

The question should therefore not be is PageRank useless but is it a precursor to something more? Again many bloggers have watched what happened to John Chow (who still doesn't rank for his name) and are wondering if their PageRank drop a warning of worse to come?

To sum up

PageRank is nothing but a metric, as one of it sources it uses inbound links, Web site rankings also use inbound links as one of their sources. This means that there should be a relationship between increased PageRank and better rankings, it does not mean PageRank effects the search engine results. I also have a metric called RFSSTRW which is a simple way for me to rate bad sites it uses inbound links as one of its sources.The key it has no more or less involvement with the ranking of sites then PageRank does!

Final thoughts: Chicken or the Egg

Chicken or the Egg
I will leave you with one final question; How did the first PageRank 10 site get its PageRank, if as it's believed sites must have links from sites with a higher PageRank? I will leave you to sort out this little problem in your head while I go and deal with my declining rankings.
Quick Update - I thought I would link to two conflicting stories about PR0 sites, these guys both lost all their PageRank as a punishment, one has seen no change in their traffic, the other a significant drop. Is this proof of a link or simply more proof that PageRank has nothing to do with rankings, so without further ado Big Foot Marketing Story & Gather Success blog story.

Quickly Linking?

If you want to link to this post quickly please use: http://tnash.eu/t32

alternativly use one of these services Tiny URL | bit.ly |is.gd

RSS feed | Trackback URI | Add your comment!

27 Comments »

Comment by Mark Pilatowski
2007-11-19 14:06:18
Mark Pilatowski avatar

Excellent breakdown of the recent PR fiasco. I really enjoyed the chicken and egg analogy too. In my work in the real estate industry I come across a lot of sites that refuse to link out to sites with a lower PR. It can be difficult to convince the site owners that it is not bad to link out to a useful resource that has a few less green pixels.

Comment by Tim Nash
2007-11-19 15:16:23

Mark your right I have had infuriating conversations with people over that little green bar, and we are talking about highly educated intelligent people who are adamant that linking to sites with lower PR will ruin there rankings.

 
 
Comment by Mike - Twenty Steps from Twenty Steps
2007-11-19 14:11:45
Mike - Twenty Steps avatar

You rear pigs? Ewwww….Whatever floats your boat, I guess…

Comment by Tim Nash
2007-11-19 15:14:44

That would be the royal we, Mike but I am rather partial to Roast Pork on a sunday

 
 
Comment by g1smd
2007-11-20 05:23:42
g1smd avatar

No Digital Pointless still have not got the message.

Their latest scheme is arranging to “stumble” each other’s stories, each time giving a URL and quoting the Toolbar PR for that story.

 
Comment by Rob from robert watts
2007-11-20 19:48:44
Rob avatar

Tim, I love the graphic – Ive just came back from somewhere and find myself in one of those reflective moods – Flicking through various blocgposts and whatnot and re-reading this, that image and the parraells and comparisons have kinda tickled me!

As for the PR thing…sigh..I decided that best thing to do for me was to just turn the damn thing off. I’m sure someone somewhere will tell me if I ever get it back . Meantime, I guess I’ll just have to live with my shroud of invisible evilness and be done with it. I’m such a source of badness and do wickediness afterall.

Cheers :)

 
Comment by Joy from http://www.dotcomsecrets.com
2007-11-20 22:20:02
Joy avatar

I agree with you Tim..the value of the site is not measured by the green bar..it is the content that determines it’s true value..I have come across a lot of sites that have low or zero page rank at all but I have get lots of information and stuff that helped me a lot..^^

 
Comment by John ONeill from backupanytime.com
2008-01-16 15:49:54
John ONeill avatar

I have read your entire article and agree with every word of it. To demonstrate the pervasiveness of the level of obsession people have with pr, I will tell you the following. Desite haveing read all of your article, understanding and agreeing with it, I still want higher page rank. There is a positive side to page rank therefore. It means that despite its lack of consequence to most of us, it may revent us from linking to bad neighbourhoods and receiving links we dont deserve. I am not cynical enough to realy believe that is the only intended purpose of pr. It does however appear to be the major consequence.

John

 
Comment by I could not be bothered to read rules from Free Computer Help
2008-02-18 07:53:00
I could not be bothered to read rules avatar

I have to say, that unfortunately I had problems getting other sites to link to me when I had no PR…

Now I have my first PR at 4, I am getting emails everyday to exchange links and more…

What can I say… Since I am still in the process of building my site, a PR seems to be a great benefit at the moment.

Comment by Tim Nash
2008-02-18 08:24:10

Unfortunately its the same story every time a matter of perception which is why education and articles like these are so important. If the image of the man the pig and DNA can stick in peoples heads then perhaps even some of the digital point brainless masses might get the idea!

But in your case its not PR that is bringing you link requests its the brainless idiots and just think if they are using PR as their measuring stick do you really want to be linking with them?

 
 
Comment by Jim McNelis from Small Business Web Solution
2008-02-18 14:27:10
Jim McNelis avatar

“PageRank is a metric a score to help Google and others to rate a site…”

Google uses PageRank to help determine a pages position in the SERPs for a given keyword. One of the factors in pagerank is inbound links, which also has other separate effects on the SERPs (like anchor text from the links effecting the rankings) but that doesn’t mean PageRank isn’t playing a major part in the rankings. You are right Tim, it is a metric. It is a metric used by Google to help determine the SERP results. It is the equation behind Google’s search engine (at least a big part of it). It matters.

Andy Beard, who you mentioned in this article, recently wrote an article about PageRank and why it matters. Check it:

Andy Beard say PageRank is the Primary factor in Google’s SERPs

Cheers Mate!

Comment by Tim Nash
2008-02-18 14:44:25

Hi Jim
I’m well are of Andy article but I feel you may have misunderstood one or both of the articles, neither of us are saying different things. I am discussing PageRank the propaganda tool, Andy is discussing Google Ranking algorithm he uses the term PageRank to describe several factors I tend to use the term Link Juice or PageWorth so as not to cause confusion that is being shown between the two.

We do differ on some of his comments in the article but the basic premises are the same. Neither of us has ever said;

It is the equation behind Google’s search engine

Nor are either of us likely to ;)

Comment by Jim McNelis from Small Business Web Solution
2008-02-18 14:53:48
Jim McNelis avatar

Ah so you are discussing the Toolbar PageRank not real PageRank? I’ll concede that TBPR isn’t a huge factor for SERP rankings. I will go as far as to say it is related though, since TBPR is based on real PageRank.

I still stand behind the fact that PageRank is the equation behind Google’s search engine. It may not be the only one, but it’s a major factor.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by Tim Nash
2008-02-18 14:58:55

Thankfully apart from some academic interest their is little reason to ponder if it is or isn’t

Since the factors are on the whole the same ones that help you rank, whether Google takes those factors on an individual basis or by combining them into some metric (PageRank) first and then uses purely that makes little practical difference in the long run. Though it would (and does) make a huge difference in the out come of the SERPs.

Where it is important is dicussing why when looking at sites as a whole the use of Toolbar PR is flawed and how as a metric it is an appalling one to use for determining value.

 
Comment by Jim McNelis from Small Business Web Solution
2008-02-18 15:08:30
Jim McNelis avatar

Well put Tim. I guess we do see eye-to-eye on this issue.

The same metrics are used to determine real PR and to determine SERP rankings in Google for a given keyword.

Do we agree on that statement?

 
 
 
 
Comment by Tim Nash
2008-02-18 15:18:59

Not really lets try…

The PageRank metric uses common factors to those seen as factors in ranking a page but not a given keyword.

That is a fair and accurate statement if Google does or does not combine the factors is irrelevant their is commonality but more factors go into the ranking of a page for a keyword then simply its PageRank.

 
Comment by Jim McNelis from Small Business Web Solution
2008-02-18 15:41:08
Jim McNelis avatar

The PageRank metric uses common factors to those seen as factors in ranking a page but not a given keyword.

I think you are close here Tim, but the statement does not give enough weight to PageRank, in my opinion.

I can fully optimize a page for “life insurance” but no matter what I do with the keywords on-page or off-page, I am not going to be able to achieve a top 10 result in the SERPs for that keyword without PageRank.

Comment by Tim Nash
2008-02-18 15:52:39

You can assign your own weight to a given factor :D but the PageRank effects the page not the keyword now the page obviously effects the keywords ranking. So whatever ranking factors are in place the combined PageRank factors are only one group. You can debate till your blue in the face how much influence they do or don’t have but as we have already determined they are as a collective not the only factor.

 
 
Comment by Jim McNelis from Small Business Web Solution
2008-02-18 16:02:39
Jim McNelis avatar

Well I have enjoyed our little conversation/debate on the matter (seems we do agree for the most part).

I made a post on the importance of Toolbar PageRank which is related to our conversation:

Why Toolbar PageRank is Important

 
Comment by Jamie Horsley from Party Planning - Theme Nights
2008-02-21 17:04:12
Jamie Horsley avatar

Page Rank is key to high listings

Jamie

 
Comment by önder from petnos
2008-06-03 18:17:40
önder avatar

For me pagerank is a tool which is a starting point for text link sellers. and here is a point that we have to know; if your web page doesnt include what people are looking for your pagerank doesnt mean anything.

 
Comment by susan from backupvault
2009-09-02 09:35:21
susan avatar

great article written after analysis,but the fact is that page rank is responsible for high listing.

Comment by Tim Nash
2009-09-03 09:54:36

The fact it took you 3 attempts to post a comment ;) means I suspect you either didn’t read the article or simply didn’t understand it but if you look at the picture of the DNA, the man and the Pig I think it explains the difference between correlation and effect.

 
 

Responses to this post:

dont be an idiot, use a real name and all comments are moderated
Name Your name not your website(required)
E-mail (required - never shown publicly)
Website address (URL)
Web site name will be used as link text
Your Comment (smaller size | larger size)
You may use <a href="" title=""> <abbr title=""> <acronym title=""> <b> <blockquote cite=""> <cite> <code> <del datetime=""> <em> <i> <q cite=""> <strike> <strong> in your comment.
Spam protection: Sum of two + 4 ?
Tim Nash consulting